Future Fit: Creating Organisations Ready For The Future with Friska Wirya
Friska Wirya - Author of ‘The Future Fit Organisation’, Change Expert and TEDx Speaker
Friksa is a Change Management Thought Leader, and author of her bestselling new book the Future Fit Organisation: a leaders guide to transformation.
She has led change at global organizations driving hundreds of millions in annual savings and is now Chief Change Officer at Fresh by Friska. Friska is lifelong learner and self-confessed geek, and she’s a born communicator – which we’ll sure you’ll agree with after listening to this warm and wide ranging conversation.
Is your organisation future fit?
How can you navigate the uncharted waves of change and emerge stronger than before?
In this conversation we had a conversation with highly acclaimed change management expert Friska Wirya. In her new book ‘The Future Fit Organisation’ she tackles the burning questions that keep forward-looking leaders awake at night, with unique insights that pave the way for change to galvanise. Real-world case studies and thought-provoking analysis equip you to shape a resilient organisation poised for sustained success:
Level up your ability to catalyse enterprise-wide change.
Harness the right headspace to guide with acuity and nimbleness.
Foster creativity in problem solving to stay head and shoulders above the rest.
Drive acceptance and adoption to fuel expansion and unlock step-change performance.
Forge a vibrant organisational culture that acts as the calm among the chaos.
Perfect your transformative leadership savvy to motivate your organisation to embrace change - be it in the boardroom or on the shop floor.
The Future Fit Organisation is your compass for steering through change, providing practical strategies to successfully guide and evolve your organisation's transformation.
Are you ready to get future fit? Dive into the conversation and find out!
To learn more about Friska, and get a copy of The Future Fit Organisation here:
Connect with Friska Wirya via her website and on LinkedIn
Get your copy of The Future Fit Organisation by Friska Wirya here.
Episode Transcript:
Sally Clarke (she/her) (00:03.347)
It's really lovely to have you here with us, Friska. Welcome to We Are Human Leaders. We're really excited for our conversation with you today. We'd love to get started, firstly, really by zooming out a little bit and hearing from you about the personal journey that's brought you to the important work that you're doing today.
Friska (00:22.877)
Yeah, I would say I stumbled upon what I do today. It was a bit of an accident, a bit of an evolution. I was doing my undergrad in Los Angeles and there was a professor that I really looked up to and he'd spent a lifetime consulting Fortune 100 companies flying all around the world. It sounded very glamorous and I was like, I want a piece of that and I said, help me get to where you are. How do I get there?
And he said, oh, you know, do your MBA, get into a management consulting firm, work your way up from junior analyst partner. That's what I did. And I thought, OK, that's the path that I want to follow. So I did what he asked. I got my MBA, really great marks. I then went back to Australia because that's when the subprime mortgage fallout started happening. So a crime shot through the roof. And I thought, you know, it's a time to go back home. So I came back.
and proceeded to be bored out of my mind. I've just felt like every day was the same, every job was the same, just put a different logo on it. I was feeling really unchallenged and unfulfilled. And it was only then that change management started to be recognized as a discipline. And it really intrigued me, like there's an actual art to making change happen in large organizations. And because every change is different, because every organization's different, every culture's different.
It offered me that diversity that I needed to keep intrigued and keep interested in doing what I do. And I had no experience whatsoever, no qualifications. And I found an organization that was willing to take a bet on me, willing to hire me as a change analyst. So I stepped down. I took a 40% pay cut to start from absolutely nothing. Learned the ropes. Shattered more experienced change practitioners.
After that, I got many, many more qualifications under my belt and certifications. But really, fast forward seven years later, I was the youngest GM of Change for the biggest gold mining company in the Southern Hemisphere. And since then, I've done changes of all shapes and sizes, some amazing ones, some super, super tough ones. But it's taken me all around the world. And now I would call myself a multi-hyphenate. I'm not just a change management consultant and advisor.
Friska (02:43.561)
I teach change, I coach change, I talk about change, and as of two months ago, I now write about change. So yeah, I published my first book.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (02:50.204)
Yay.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (02:53.987)
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. It sounds like a really beautiful journey and a very authentic one to sort of finding what really naturally fits for you. And it's so interesting that sometimes, you know, the way you might've seen things going, I can imagine after that conversation in LA to how things are now is drastically different and yet sort of exactly where you're meant to be. I'm curious, what is it about change that fascinates you, particularly organizational change?
Friska (03:25.785)
I think because it's not logical at all. Humans are very irrational, emotional creatures. And what works for Jim is not going to work for Steve. And I think it's that constant challenge, that mental challenge, that keeps me stimulated.
Alexis Zahner (03:45.178)
That's fascinating Friske and you write about change in your new book through this lens of future fit. Now can we take a moment to discuss what this means and really dive into what makes an organization future fit?
Friska (04:01.805)
So my favorite quote that was in the book is one by a futurist called Alvin Toffler and he said the literate of the future won't be those that cannot read or write.
Alexis Zahner (04:06.882)
Mm-hmm.
Friska (04:11.169)
but those that cannot learn, relearn and unlearn. So the FutureFit organization needs to get with the program. They need to realize what got them to where they are today is not gonna get them to where they wanna be tomorrow. I mean, we saw it hasn't been a secret that technology's been a massive catalyst and an enabler for significant change in organizations, but that's just the technological leap. We need to work on the cultural leap as well to be FutureFit because we can't just suddenly implement
Alexis Zahner (04:29.941)
Mm-hmm.
Friska (04:41.463)
AI tools and say, all right guys, be innovative. It doesn't work like that. If they've had a history of being rewarded, recognized and remunerated for taking the safe route, then you're never gonna get people to start thinking differently and to start acting differently.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (04:52.036)
Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (04:52.331)
Hmm
Friska (04:57.381)
So the FutureFit organization is an organization that gets unconventional results because they take the path less traveled. They realize the people stack is even more important than the tech stack. There's no, there's no, like for example, if I bought the latest and greatest speedo fast suit, I'm not going to beat Michael Phelps in the pool, right? The people stack is more important than the tech.
Alexis Zahner (05:17.48)
Right, right. Yeah. So it sounds to me like it's this blend between process change and behavioral change and to a larger extent, mindset change, like making sure people are cognitively on board and have the cognitive flexibility and the tools to actually move with that change.
Friska (05:38.197)
Yes, correct. And you know, people won't get that mindset just organically. So companies need to invest in doing this, invest in helping their people learn, relearn and unlearn, because we all walk around with behaviors that no longer serve us. And it's, we don't often get the chance to reflect on what these are and intentionally reprogram those behaviors to something that's more productive.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (05:44.229)
Mm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (06:03.703)
I'm so curious to know Friska, what is it, you know, what are the capabilities that senior leaders need to show in order to really be driving meaningful change? Because as you alluded to, humans are sort of almost inherently change averse and we struggle with it a lot. And particularly when we're under any level of stress, it becomes even more difficult. So what do you think are the capabilities that leaders really need to be building in themselves and those around them to facilitate meaningful change?
Friska (06:33.425)
I think the most important skill that leaders need today is relational intelligence. It's not about being the smartest person in the room. It's about... I see the fist bumps in the air.
Alexis Zahner (06:46.622)
Yes, yes, we are here for it.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (06:46.652)
You!
Friska (06:50.777)
You know, I really, it really annoys me when people call them soft skills because they're not soft at all. Like they are critical skills. You tell me any job where you don't need to have good relationships, right? Communication, adaptability, critical thinking, collaboration, co-creation, influence. These are all critical skills, not just leaders that everybody needs to have, but leaders especially, especially because we work in such hybrid conditions now. You need to develop that, that...
Alexis Zahner (06:54.361)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (06:58.826)
Yeah.
Friska (07:20.921)
relational skills in multi different environments, in not just different cultures, but what do you do when half your team's at home, half your team's on another continent, you're here, how do you build that bond that glues people together? I think now also because
Sally Clarke (she/her) (07:30.769)
Mm.
Friska (07:38.173)
uncertainty is the norm, right? Everybody's scared, you know, interest rates are rising, housing affordability crisis, blah, blah. So it's even more important for leaders to be visionary, not just to set and envision a really vivid future state of the organization, but be able to communicate it in a way that inspires and motivates the team from the boardroom to the shop floor. Like don't talk to your people as if you're, you know, reading a report at your AGM, you just need to be
really real. Digital literacy, obviously we've already talked about that, so you need to know like what are those relevant tools for your organization and for your industry. You don't need to know everything and if you don't know you need to be humble enough to get that information. And lastly I would add it's
the ability to localize. Too often I've seen change management efforts kind of fall off a cliff because it's mandated down by corporate, whether they're in the US or whatnot, and they expect it to roll out as per the corporate gods, and it falls flat in Singapore or Malaysia or whatnot. So it's having that cultural sensitivity.
Alexis Zahner (08:51.558)
What's interesting about what you just said Friske, it almost sounds to me as though the adaptability, flexibility piece needs to be embedded at every level. It's not about, you know, taking an approach that will roll down, that's adaptable and flexible. It's every leader at every level, contextually being able to take that and roll with it in a way that's relevant for their team, their skill set, and, you know, be at their vertical or something like that.
Friska (09:19.985)
And often leaders don't want to be agile because it looks like they're weak, it looks like they've changed their minds, but this can have such disastrous impacts. Have you watched the playlist on Spotify by any chance?
Alexis Zahner (09:25.483)
Mm-hmm. Mm. That's right.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (09:25.872)
Mmm.
Alexis Zahner (09:35.841)
No, tell me more.
Friska (09:37.718)
It's a docu-series based on the real rise and rise of Spotify. And it's a perfect example of why leaders resist anything new. So it showed the CEO of Sony, who felt really threatened. He was not open to learning a new way of doing business, a new way of doing business that didn't involve charging $7 for a single and $30 for an album. I remember those days. CDs were expensive.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (09:42.707)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (09:42.92)
Oh, cool.
Alexis Zahner (09:47.57)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (09:54.615)
Mm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (09:59.995)
Yep. Sayonara.
Alexis Zahner (10:00.326)
Yep.
Friska (10:03.753)
And he's like, no, what is this music streaming? Anyway, Sony was losing a couple of million Krona a month for nearly a year before he finally was open to learning the world of music streaming. So this happens every single day in a lot of large organizations. Leaders are too embarrassed to change their minds or to show people, actually, I'm not sure about this, but I'm open to learning. So that doesn't happen very often.
Alexis Zahner (10:15.478)
Hmm. Yeah.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (10:17.043)
Mmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (10:29.507)
Yeah, it's interesting. I'd love to hit pause on that Frisco because I think that's a really important point and we need to come back to. You mentioned also that in a hybrid context, it's really important for leaders to be really, taking on these capabilities and having this agility and almost sort of multifaceted approach. Can you speak a little more to the qualities we need to be seeing from leaders in a hybrid environment? What can really help leaders to...
Alexis Zahner (10:31.399)
Hmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (10:57.575)
help their teams to thrive in this situation when people are having very different, you know, lived experiences of their work lives.
Friska (11:05.901)
it becomes more important to control the strategic narrative. So what's being said? How is it being said? How is it being received? And I think a common mistake that I see in organizations is that they do a lot of communicating. Like some leaders who understand that it's very important to engage the people, they're always talking, talking. But when was the last time they did some listening?
you know, that it's a two way street. So often they don't even ask how things are landing for their people. And I think this is a gross misstep because then they're left to assume. And assumptions are dangerous things because you can make the completely wrong decision. And I think in this hybrid world, it's even more important to master synchronous and asynchronous communication just to ensure people feel included, you know, because time zones, etc. Not everybody's going to dial in at a town hall at 9am.
people aren't disadvantaged and making sure you're leveraging the most of the digital platforms that we have.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (12:06.339)
Yeah, I can imagine that really impacts inclusion, doesn't it? Because if there's a conversation that's happening in the office and you happen to be working remotely and you're not included in that, then a leader being able to really discern almost intuitively, this is something that other people need to know. So I'm going to let them know immediately so that there's no lag there. They're not feeling left out of the conversation. It's these small moments that have such an impact.
Friska (12:30.537)
Yeah, like some organizations have mandated a blanket.
policy, like for example, if one person dials in, everybody dials in, you know, if everybody's at home, then we're all at home. So I think this kind of evens out the playing field as well. Because I've been on the receiving end before where I was dialing in from somewhere else, 80% of the people were in the room. And I could barely hear the conversations that were being had, you know, you couldn't read body language, facial expressions. So I was having a completely different experience.
Alexis Zahner (12:53.579)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (12:57.289)
Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (13:02.974)
Yeah, that is an interesting approach. Even if you're in the same office building, getting everyone to dial in just small changes to even the playing field. And I'd love to know Friska, you know, obviously you speak a lot about change management in your new book. What other mistakes, key mistakes do you see leaders making around this? And what, what can we learn from that to do better?
Friska (13:24.601)
I would say the biggest mistake and what makes my life a lot harder is leaders expecting anything change management related to be the change management consultant's job. So a lot of leaders expect everyone else to change, but not them. It's like they have special treatment, but like, no, that's not how it works. That's why you make the big bucks. You need to put your big boy pants on and your big girl heels on and you actually need to go out there.
Alexis Zahner (13:37.142)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (13:41.288)
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis Zahner (13:47.618)
Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (13:52.514)
Yeah.
Friska (13:54.357)
So, you know, I've seen some exceptional leaders able to influence workforces of 200,000 people all around the world. I've also witnessed really cold and disconnected leaders. They just had no warmth and no soul and it just fell flat. So if I keep in mind the A plus change leaders, I've noticed a common theme on the leadership activities that they do.
Alexis Zahner (14:00.266)
Yep.
Alexis Zahner (14:08.521)
Yeah.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (14:08.537)
Mm.
Friska (14:17.393)
and how they do them and I call them the ABCs. The first is they're active and visible sponsors and the way they do this is they're authentic and they're accepting. So they're always seen, well not only are they always seen but they're seen in the right way during a change effort and this means complete alignment between what they say and what they do right. We remember
Alexis Zahner (14:24.566)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (14:28.77)
So cool.
Friska (14:40.673)
during lockdown, you know, Boris Johnson saying to everybody, no, you know, no one go anywhere, stay at home, but yet there's parties of having a boozy party in the papers, like that does not fly nowadays. So that doesn't work. B is for build a coalition. So change doesn't happen by me by myself. It doesn't happen by the CEO, even if they're amazing. So you need a coalition. It's like building the foundations of a house. And these are the walls that help it stand up. And the way they do this is to be bold.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (14:52.013)
Mm-mm.
Alexis Zahner (15:09.334)
Hmm.
Friska (15:11.147)
and brave because change inherently needs you to be vulnerable because hey we're doing something new it could completely fail but that's okay so they need to be brave and back this initiative no matter what
And lastly, C is communicate, communicate. And when they do communicate, they're very centered and they're very connected. You can feel the conviction emanating out of their paws. So if you don't communicate and you're a leader, it's like organizing an Oscars worthy gala and then you're not sending any invites out. There's really no point. So they need to personally connect with it. Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (15:45.41)
Hmm. I love that. Yeah.
Frisky, there's so much in that, that I would love to unpack. Firstly, this idea that leaders need to take radical responsibility for the change. This is something that we talk about so much at human leaders as well is, you know, it goes back to the classic saying that I used to hear a lot as a, as a kid, you know, do what I say, not what I do. And it's so frustrating. And there's nothing worse than feeling like you're being prescribed something, but the doctor's not drinking the same medicine. So I think it's so important leaders take that radical responsibility.
Friska (16:08.412)
Mm.
Alexis Zahner (16:20.382)
And something I wanted to ask you in particular around this coalition piece, because I, I believe a lot of the research suggests that change can actually start with quite a small perhaps percentage of group or like a, you know, a ripple that can really become a wave in some time. So what advice would you have for leaders in terms of this coalition within an organization? Should they be actively looking at engaging with folks who have a high, you know,
Friska (16:35.454)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Alexis Zahner (16:49.046)
risk propensity or looking at the influences within the organization, how do they go about sort of getting the right people on board to help create that groundswell for the change?
Friska (17:00.653)
First of all, it depends what the change is. And then you touched on a good point there, who are the influences? So that's a good place to start. Like I myself don't focus on the loudest naysayers. Like there's no point, it's just a lot of hot air. I think about who can really shift the needle? Who do people listen to? And newsflash, it's not the most senior person in the room. So often leaders just go straight to the second inch and say, yep, this is the right person to drive this. Actually, that's not it. It's the one that...
Alexis Zahner (17:03.943)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (17:07.549)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (17:13.766)
Yep.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (17:14.515)
Mm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (17:18.322)
Mm.
Alexis Zahner (17:22.194)
No.
Alexis Zahner (17:27.394)
Mm-hmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (17:28.272)
Right.
Friska (17:29.013)
people listen to for impartial advice. So, and that person, you know, wears many different clothes and has many different personas. So you need to take time to understand.
Alexis Zahner (17:31.682)
Mm-hmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (17:31.769)
Hmm
Friska (17:38.741)
on who that is. The second point I wanna make about a coalition is to make sure the coalition is diverse. If we think about the wildly successful Obama campaign, he had coalition, he had support from everyone. He had obviously African-Americans, you had Asians, you had old people, young people, LGBTQI+, you need the same when you're creating your coalition because this diversity allows that team.
Alexis Zahner (17:46.274)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (17:50.817)
Yep.
Friska (18:05.037)
to see all sides of an issue. It enables innovation and this gives more credibility to that change effort. If they're all, you know, no disrespect to anyone listening, but if they're all male, pale and stale, then a vast majority of the work population is gonna switch off in the organization because they'll think, oh, this is just a change that will benefit that small subsection of the workforce.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (18:27.687)
I love that Frisco, I think that's such an important message. And I think it often happens even at a subconscious level when we're seeing, when we're not seeing ourselves represented and we have the feeling that our voice doesn't matter, then it's almost an automatic subconscious shift to just withdraw, to disengage and make assumptions. And I, to that point, I love that you also highlighted in the C component of communicate, that too often we see people just making assumptions about, you know,
I'm having this thought, therefore others understand this thought. I think really for leaders to learn that there needs to be communication, there's no way we can, we can't read each other's minds, but what does someone really need to know about this situation? What do they need to understand that will help them to buy into this particular kind of change is such an important reflection. And I think one that we sort of too often sort of hurry through in the interests of our busy lives rather than hitting pause and holding space for that.
Friska (19:22.649)
Yeah, I literally had this argument just last night. So I'm on a I'm on a quite a significant digital transformation for one of the largest digital advertising aggregators in the world and the executive sponsor is the CIO. So I set the strategic narrative and I sent him something to review. It was six pages, right? And he goes, no one's going to read beyond two pages. Cut, cut, cut. And I thought.
My initial response was, okay fine, you know your workforce. And I thought, actually, no, it's not fine. So I had a call with them. I said, look, all due respect, I know you may seem really bored of reading these things, but remember you've been privy to this information for a good three months. And the people reading this, this will be the first ever time you've announced this significant change and they'll wanna know all this detail.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (20:05.732)
Mmm.
Alexis Zahner (20:06.138)
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis Zahner (20:11.209)
Yeah.
Friska (20:13.929)
And I negotiated with him, look, how about we include this and I'll get feedback from key stakeholders. If they say it's too much, I'll do it your way. And he said, okay, fine. You know, but, but often, um, we need to move from being order takers to really being valued partners, you know.
Alexis Zahner (20:24.268)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (20:31.346)
Yeah.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (20:32.275)
I think that's so key Frisket as well that we too often assume or just sort of forget the audience. It's, you know, thinking in the standing in the shoes of the person who's hearing this information for the first time and thinking about what will help them to understand the reasons why we're doing this, the importance of it, their role in it, these kinds of questions. And I think also sometimes.
Alexis Zahner (20:46.85)
and the reason why we're doing this is the importance of the year long and these tiny questions. I think also is something related to the fact that we're not doing this
Sally Clarke (she/her) (20:53.275)
For some leaders, it's almost an ego thing, especially when you've been working on something for a while and all of the jargon is second nature to you and you're using all the acronyms everywhere. But being able to sort of hold space for what is going to be important for the person, people in my workforce, for them to really get this immediately, have the information in the context that they need to get on board with this change and to feel like they're a part of it too.
Friska (21:00.333)
Mm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (21:22.351)
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that example. And I was just sort of curious, and it sounds like you're still in the middle of this transformation that you're speaking to, but it would be really awesome for us and for our listeners, I think, to hear a little bit of a, maybe an example or a case study that you have of an organization, perhaps from Future Fit from your book, where you've seen this kind of change occur, or you've seen an organization become Future Fit. What does the process look like?
and what sort of steps are involved.
Friska (21:54.689)
So I'll talk about an example. It was probably the highest profile change project that I was on. So it was about the future of policing for WA police. So they are the world's single largest policing jurisdiction. And they keep 1.5 million citizens safe and maintain their quality of life. So if we think about the three elements that make or break the success of a change effort, I'd call them the three Cs,
we've touched on one already, that is the communication, the culture and the capability. And so what made them FutureFit is that they realized this and they integrated those three Cs into how they rolled out change, into how they communicated about it. They invested in future ready skills, they put their money where their mouth is, they actually put people and resources into an innovation pool.
and to make it easy for people to contribute ideas, they even created their own portal where anybody could enter an idea, it would then get up voted, down voted, they'd be a panel of peers, of diverse peers that would vote on that. And this support that...
everybody saw within the organization for the new, the foreign, the unconventional, it whet the appetite for more change. And then how change was embedded in the organization, it was a framework that I created and I call it the 4S. So system support skills structures. When I say support, I mean really securing that top down support and making sure there's complete leadership alignment.
Because if there's no alignment, for every level down, it mutates into something completely unrecognizable. And by the time it gets down to the shop floor, it's like playing Chinese whispers. Skills is giving people not just technical skills, but those critical skills. How do you create openness to change? Can you teach empathy? You know, what does that mean in that particular context? Structures, so this means that...
Friska (24:00.321)
the new way that we were pushing forward this future vision, we had to structurally integrate that. So this meant changing job descriptions, changing how we reward and remunerate people. So all sorts of different things had to change structurally and even different reporting lines. And lastly, systems. So to make sure that change is embedded into the engine, we have to systemize things. So systemize things such as collecting change data, reporting on it.
deciding on KPIs. So together these things elevated the change maturity of that organization from low when I first started to quite mature and that particular project won an award by Department of Finance for best in class for its change management because they were serious about it. They made it someone's job, they held someone accountable, they re-storced it, they didn't expect it to happen overnight and together with a structured change methodology you get that success.
Alexis Zahner (24:39.833)
Mmm.
Alexis Zahner (24:55.862)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (25:01.35)
I like that you mentioned this idea of change maturity. I think you said that Friska and I just want to take a moment to dive into this a little bit more because you then sort of went on to say, you know, they, they structured the change process in a way where people could come along from the journey. And you know, what do you do? Cause I, my background, I've worked in organizations like government, local government before. And I feel like in a lot of ways there are really deeply bedded down.
processes and mindsets, and perhaps a higher risk aversion than say a startup or an entrepreneurial venture that's probably a younger company, if you will, that perhaps maybe has a higher change maturity, I would argue just because of their adaptability. What is what's important for us to know if we're starting from a place where a company has a real aversion to change and risk?
Do we want to start incrementally? How do we want to start that process in a way so it doesn't overwhelm people and result in failure?
Friska (26:06.482)
I'm a big believer in starting small, pilot on a small group, making sure that is a win under any circumstances before rolling it out across other departments. And you just need to understand why people fear change, why they stick their boots in. It's because they're scared.
Alexis Zahner (26:09.672)
Mm-hmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (26:11.194)
Mm.
Friska (26:23.873)
They're scared of losing something and it's your job to uncover what that is and in my experience is one of these Six peas it's either power scared of losing their power Position is my job at risk Prestige is my budget gonna be reduced. Am I gonna look like an empty, you know
Sally Clarke (she/her) (26:25.341)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (26:36.275)
Yeah.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (26:37.679)
Mm.
Friska (26:41.365)
Performance, is this change going to make it harder for me to achieve a certain level? Protection, especially in the cases of mergers and acquisitions and restructures, this person could be being protected, this person could be a pet favourite of somebody, and this change is going to take that all away. So once you uncover which of these P's are driving that fear, you can start to address it more proactively, and it can be more than one.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (26:51.26)
Mmm
Alexis Zahner (26:57.494)
Mm-hmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (27:09.363)
I can certainly imagine having a legal background, Friska, that in the legal profession, there's certainly, probably arguably all of those to some extent, depending on people's roles and positions, but there is one of those P's will be at play. And I think it's a really beautiful point that you elicit here also around understanding the fear that it's play, because that really, by holding space for that, can we actually start to get people's...
Alexis Zahner (27:09.49)
Mmm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (27:37.863)
you know, really truly intrinsic buy into to change because, and I think coupled with the small steps as well, that it doesn't feel overwhelming, that it's happening sort of incrementally, perhaps being, you know, tested before the full rollout, but also presume also, you know, clear communication to the wider organization, we're doing this, we're testing this, and we're sharing with you what we're learning from it, as we go that also sort of builds in a level of trust, trust in the process itself.
Friska (27:55.309)
Yeah.
Friska (28:07.029)
Yeah, yeah. And often also what makes these peas flare up is that the leader doesn't set context in the beginning. So I remember being on this project, it was a restructure project, but it was a good news story. It wasn't people going away. It was actually adding people and having more ownership for particular areas that used to be outsourced. And because the leader hadn't set context properly,
I thought everybody knew this is like a good news story and we're here to kind of get to that next level of detail in terms of timelines, resourcing, etc. So I was doing my structured one-on-one interviews and I remember one particular person, he sat down and the first thing he said was, just tell me, do I still have my job? It's like, and all these people were thinking the same thing, you know? So, yeah, you need to be very explicit when you're doing anything, when you're changing anything.
Alexis Zahner (28:57.216)
Ah. Mm-mm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (28:59.591)
Mm.
Alexis Zahner (29:06.253)
Yep.
Friska (29:07.214)
No communication is worse than over communication because people will make up stories and those stories are often worst case scenarios. So he had been tying himself up in knots thinking his days were numbered.
Alexis Zahner (29:11.302)
Yep.
Alexis Zahner (29:17.922)
Hmm. Which is such an awful position to put people in as well. And you know, I always think of that quote, people might forget what you say, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. And when you kind of destroy that trust created through uncertainty by not giving people clarity, it can be really hard to recover that even though they might stay and even though
they might retain their job, they'll always remember that time you made them feel uncertain and perhaps that distrust will be seeded for a long time. So I think this idea of communication, it's just so important and I love that that's a big piece of the work, Friska. And I'd love to sort of talk a little bit more around why and what advantages future fit organizations...
can expect over those who don't do this work.
Friska (30:14.433)
Where do I start? There's like a laundry list. First and foremost, innovation and creativity. So they will get better solutions, products and services. They'll often leapfrog in front of the competition and establish themselves as a market leader. Employing engagement and retention. We know how expensive it is to replace people, how time-consuming, how prone to error.
Alexis Zahner (30:16.271)
Hahaha.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (30:16.347)
Hehehehehehe
Friska (30:40.105)
If your people don't ever leave, my god, you are saving so much money that you could funnel into improving your products, etc. So yeah, that adds up a lot. It's not just the retention, but it's the attraction in the first place. So you want to attract the people that are going to fit and add to your culture because the cost of a wrong hire is so expensive. And to start that process all over again, you know, time to productivity takes a few months to ramp up.
and for it to be a cultural mishmash, and for you to have to go through that again, the costs are debilitating. And I'd say learning and skill development. So if you encourage employees to be future fit themselves, to continuously invest in learning and unlearning and industry trends, it means you're actually building future ready skills instead of buying them. And that enhances your organization's capabilities. And it has the added bonus that people are loyal to you because you're investing in their growth.
Change not going away anytime soon. It's going to be more complex, far-reaching than ever. We've got societal change, legislative change, environmental change. I can't even keep up with the technology change. So if you're investing in change management capability, then this will lead to smoother transitions, less disruptions and quicker time to value. Customer satisfaction is also another one because if you're ahead of the curve,
and proactively improving, then you'll know what they need before they even need it. So yeah, that's my pedaled off list.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (32:14.811)
What a fantastic array of benefits Frisco, I think that's going to be fairly compelling information for anyone who's listening and has any hesitation around this. And I just want to come back to something you said earlier around sometimes this expectation that when you come into an organization that the leaders might have that you're there, so you're going to do the work and they kind of that's just, you know, problem solved.
And it kind of reminded me on a personal note of some time, like when I very first went to therapy and I just expected the therapist to do all the work and very quickly learned that was, yeah, that's not how this happens. But sort of to that point, you know, we talk to human leaders a lot about the concept of self leadership and leading ourselves, wanting to drive that change in future fitness, if you will, in ourselves first. Is that something that you see as being an important component of sort of successful change as well?
Friska (32:44.961)
Picked me!
Friska (33:06.137)
Leaders need to want to work on their own future fitness, definitely, before asking people to do the same. You know, it's just like you can't feel from an empty cup. So if your own cup is empty, you're not going to be doing anyone else any favors.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (33:24.487)
Hmm. I think that's such an important component of it. Cause I can imagine also role modeling, you know, in these situations when there is uncertainty, having the capacity to be vulnerable, but also still remain, uh, you know, focused building trust, these kinds of things. It doesn't just happen by accident.
Friska (33:41.719)
Mm-mm.
Sally Clarke (she/her) (33:44.655)
And so I feel like we could ask a million more questions Frisk, but I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who are really fascinated to know more about future fitness and obviously need to buy your book. But as a starting point sort of right now for a leader at any level in an organization, if they're hearing this and thinking, I want my organization to experience these benefits too.
what would be a starting point or a first step that they might be able to take to start to make that shift.
Friska (34:19.225)
I'm a big believer in like alliteration and acronyms. And for me, it's all about the B's and I call them the five B's. The first is baseline. Where are we today? Where do we rank on our future with fitness? How do we know that we're there? How do we want to define future fitness? What is our version of a future fitness beat test? Is it time to create products? Is it a certain customer ranking review? So decide what that means.
The second B is brainstorm. So putting on the layers, what's our ideal version of future fitness? Let your team have some skin in the game. So let them come up with ideas. So if we were to project, what are we saying? What are we creating? What are we thinking? What are we feeling as a future fit organization? B would be balance. So how do we balance the gap between?
today and tomorrow? How can we, you know, on if we've got a pendulum, how can we balance stability versus growth? How are we going to make time to become future fit? Right? It's not magic. As, as L'Oreal says, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen. So how are we going to do that in our business? What needs and this is the thing people always add things add, add more initiatives. What are we going to stop? What's not important to our future fitness? Right? We can't just keep
Sally Clarke (she/her) (35:26.779)
Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (35:39.801)
Oh that's an important one. Yep.
Friska (35:40.921)
putting things onto the kitchen sink and expecting everything to be dandy. We're gonna stop this, we need to stop something. So having the discipline to do that. The fourth B is bloom. So I'm a big believer that the best results come from doing one thing really, really well, getting feedback, iterating, improving, then applying more broadly. So plant the seeds for a small change, pilot it and watch it bloom. Last but not least, you wanna blast.
Alexis Zahner (35:47.134)
Mm-hmm.
Friska (36:08.961)
Blast the airwaves with the good news story, with the appetite for bigger media changes down the road. So show what's possible when you invest in your future fitness.
Alexis Zahner (36:12.139)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (36:19.626)
Wow, Friska, so much in that and very practical. I'm sure there is a lot there for leaders to take out and really look at where their organizations are and start moving towards that incremental change to be more future fit. Friska, thank you so much for being with us on We Are Human Leaders. It's been a real pleasure to host you.
Friska (36:41.429)
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.