Digital Distraction: Leading Through The Noise
Digital connectivity was supposed to make us faster, sharper, and more connected. Instead, it's quietly taxing the very things that make leaders effective: creativity, emotional regulation, real productivity, and trust. In this episode, Alexis unpacks "the digital leader's paradox" — the tension of needing technology to perform while it simultaneously erodes the conditions for high performance.
Drawing on the article she co-wrote with Professor Martin Gutmann (Lucerne School of Business) and Dr. Scott J. Allen (SMU Cox School of Business), Alexis walks through the four hidden costs of digital distraction — creative, emotional, productive, and relational — and makes the case that this isn't a personal discipline problem. It's a culture problem. She closes with the practical shifts leaders can make to design for focus, model presence, and lead the paradox rather than pretend it can be solved with a few "no phones after 6pm" rules.
In this conversation, we explore:
Why digital distraction should be treated as an organisational risk, not just a personal willpower issue
How fragmented attention specifically undermines creativity and strategic thinking
Why "always on" leadership mirrors athlete overtraining — and what happens without recovery time
The real cost of interruptions: task-switching can cut productivity by up to 40%, and it can take over 20 minutes to recover focus after a single notification
What phubbing is, and how it quietly erodes trust and psychological safety on a team
Five concrete practices high-performing leaders use to protect focus and presence without unplugging from work entirely
Why the answer isn't more discipline — it's a deliberate shift in team and organisational culture
About the Research
This episode draws on the article "The Digital Leader's Paradox," co-authored by Alexis Zahner, Martin Gutmann PhD (Lucerne School of Business), and Scott J. Allen PhD (SMU Cox School of Business Executive Education), citing research from Harvard Business School, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, and Perspectives on Psychological Science, among others.
Three questions for reflection
On presence vs. availability — Think about your last few team interactions. Were you fully present, or "semi-present" — half-listening while managing notifications? What signal might that be sending your team about what matters most?
On busyness vs. productivity — Where in your week do you mistake responsiveness (fast replies, constant availability) for genuine output? What would change if you protected blocks of uninterrupted time instead of optimizing for speed?
On culture, not willpower — The article argues digital distraction isn't a personal discipline problem, it's a cultural one. What communication norms has your team inherited by default rather than chosen intentionally — and which one would you change first?
Transcript
speaker-1 (00:09.794)
Welcome to Live and Work More Human. And today you are with your co-hosts, me, Sally and Alexis. And we are talking about, well what are we talking about, Lex? What are we unpacking today?
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speaker-0 (00:59.446)
Humanico. Clarity that drives performance. Visit www.humanico.co. That's h-umanico.co forward slash live and work more human. I guess we're really in a nutshell talking about the cost of digital distraction and for leaders in this space right now, the sort of paradox that they're navigating around these technologies and how we've brought them in to make us more efficient, but whether or not they're actually doing that.
speaker-1 (01:26.964)
It's a really good question because I think there is this sort of pervasive narrative of everything digital, every new piece of software is just this kind of extra step in making things go faster, bigger, better, stronger. Is that the case? Like can you tell us a little bit more about this this core paradox that you're talking about? Yeah.
speaker-0 (01:44.47)
And that's it. I think it it is a paradox that we face that we're trying to leverage technology that is being sold to us as increasing effectiveness while also somehow trying to protect the people, the health and the well-being of employees whose effectiveness depends on this technology. And in many ways, I think applications or technology we're using is actually creating more inefficiencies and more things for us to manage. So there's a lot here for leaders to navigate. And I I understand, especially with
the very fast integration of AI into workplaces, how a lot of people are struggling to sort of see the forest for the trees in this conversation. And I wonder
speaker-1 (02:20.494)
I wonder there's also like 'cause a lot of leaders obviously there's a lot of pressure from the top down, particularly to be integrating AI and using this software more more and more. Do you think leaders are kind of shying away a little bit from their conversation of what impact having for their people?
speaker-0 (02:34.592)
Yeah, I think we are seeing like this really quick pendulum swing. I think a few years ago we were just sold the narrative that if you're not on board with AI, you're going to be left behind. But I think AI as a term has sort of become used to describe anything, you know, anything from applications that use AI integrations to LLMs and things like ChatGPT, Claude, and perplexity. So using it to do thinking for us to other automation tools. So I think in a lot of ways, again, leaders just don't understand.
where AI should be used and how. And I think as a result of that, we're kind of seeing the pendulum swing back the other way now. And people are kind of almost going anti AI in some of their workplaces that I certainly consult with as well. So it's a it's an interesting time.
speaker-1 (03:18.508)
this kind of push back against it and almost sort of putting onus back on the leaders to say why are we using it, what's the impact, like sell it to me rather than just expect me to integrate it seamlessly into my workflow. Yeah.
speaker-0 (03:29.422)
Definitely. Yeah. And I think that's it, right? I think it's been sold to us as an inevitability. We felt like there's been no choice in AI use. It's be on board or be left behind. But I think what we're seeing now is more intentional, conscious slowing down of okay, but maybe but what are the benefits? How, what, when, where, why should we be using AI? And also taking some agency over the fact that it also isn't an inevitability and doesn't need to be depending on our organization and the types of work we're doing as well.
speaker-1 (03:59.148)
I feel like part of it is just missing this intentionality. Is that Yes. Yeah. Definitely.
speaker-0 (04:05.154)
Yeah, definitely. And I think specifically looking at different industries as well, the ways that we're using AI in certain ways, sp specifically in creative fields, for example, we're using it to replace the creative work that needs to be done rather than the autonomous work that humans don't need to do. so I think there's some again intentionality in that piece as well to really look at where AI might help us. But certainly I think
Digital distraction. Generally AI is one piece of the puzzle, but I think there's a lot more to this that leaders and even as individuals we need to be thinking about as well.
speaker-1 (04:40.184)
So what is it beyond AI that you see as being sort of really big causes of digital distraction? I
speaker-0 (04:45.678)
I think it's general technology use. I think our screen times increased. I think everything from emails through to social media is playing an impact on how we experience not just work, but ourselves and the world around us. And I think you know, as a millennial, I will say from my personal experience, I've grown up.
with things like social media applications on my phone. And so what is the cost of that digital distraction? And is how how does my experience of work change compared to that of say a Gen Z or someone older than me? So I think there's myriad ways in which technology, whether it's phone based or computer based or any kind of screen based, is implicating the way we work. And I think until now we're sort of only seeing it, especially in the workplace, through the lens of productivity and what it means for efficiency and effectiveness. But I think the
personal fallout and how that then flows uphill into our organizations is only just fully being understood now.
speaker-1 (05:42.87)
It's so fascinating. And you've identified some different sort of aspects of the cost that this this has for organizations. We're going to delve into that in a sec. But there is something that sort of strikes me as there's almost a similarity between how we've talked historically about burnout as well. Because we tend to have this focus, I think, naturally on the individual, because it is ultimately it's the individual who's experiencing stress when we're talking about burnout. It's the individual who's using their device and engaging with their social media and that has that sort of up, you know, flow up effect. Now what
Is this really is it a is it an individual issue or should we be framing it as a cultural one?
speaker-0 (06:17.474)
I think it's both, Sally. And interestingly, to your burnout sort of connection there as well. Like I think this happening at a societal organization and individual level, I think many of these things, and we'll focus on social media right now as an example, is something we use at an individual level, but it impacts everything from our creativity to our emotional mental health through to our relationships. And there's no way that as a human being, we can't compartmentalize that.
From how it then implicates us in the workplace. So I think in the last five to 10 years, certainly it feels like since COVID, I have felt like this exponential quickening of the pace of just modern life. And I think technology has so much to answer for in that. And I think as a result of that, we're all feeling this almost like permanent franticness. And the more we're on our devices, the more that feeling becomes exacerbated. And it feels like the momentum is like a speeding train right now for many of us.
speaker-1 (07:12.518)
Definitely. And I think there's also a lot of self-blame that goes on for people. Because I think because it's us interfacing with our phone and we read all kinds of articles about how, you know, just just just just don't. but there's so many powerful ways that we are powerful. Yes, super great. Wild. So, you know, I think it's really important for us to acknowledge just how, you know, compelling and pervasive and and and and correct me if I'm wrong, but how
speaker-0 (07:28.28)
Just get off your phone.
speaker-1 (07:42.151)
strongly, you know, tooled these things are to actually capture us, to actually be moving us in this direction.
speaker-0 (07:49.394)
And there's a lot in that, right? We we know now that the hijacking of our attention through things like social media is very much baked into the design of these applications. They're designed for engagement. Why? Because engagement drives things like ad revenue, drives longer time people spend on applications. And as a result of that, we become the product of these applications. They do this through things like infinite scroll features and you know, hijacking and exploiting our most basic psychological mechanisms like our need for reward. So
This point isn't really breaking news to us, but it still kind of feels a little disempowering as an individual. So it's not always helpful to just say, you know, get off your phone because we know it's it's hijacking your attention. I think there's a twofold response we need to take to this problem. I think half of it's individual, and that's obviously the part that's in our control. The other half is, you know, whether it's those of us in this space advocating for this at a systems level, at a governance level is absolutely critical to pushing the change as well. And, you know, as we spoke about in our conversations.
Around burnouts, Ellie, it's the same with workplace sort of governance and legislation as well. There has to be that level of protection in place for individuals as well. And I think that's certainly the case when it comes to technology use and social media use.
speaker-1 (09:01.96)
the alignment in this kind of like multi-pronged and and kind of approach that we can have to these kind of issues because I think it does mean it also really empowers us as individuals, I think to sort of make sure that we're looking after our wellbeing in the burnout context so that we can fight these fights and ensure that the regulation and legislation, but also protocols and and policies at an organizational level are being put in place too.
speaker-0 (09:23.342)
Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
speaker-1 (09:24.684)
And so in terms of the cost that you've identified, and let's just sort of talk about the organizational context. So we've got four sort of scopes of cost, creativity, emotional, productivity, and relational. Like my natural tendency is to go tell me all about the relational. What like t can we maybe just double click on one of those that's you think is really perhaps underestimated by leaders?
speaker-0 (09:41.694)
Okay.
speaker-0 (09:49.39)
I think the one that most leaders will jump most quickly to is the productivity cost because a lot of a leader's remit is to, you know, save resources, so time, energy, expenditure. But I would argue that that's actually not the most important cost. I think the thing that we stand to lose most importantly is the creativity of our employees because when we have things like fragmented attention and some of the research that I looked at showed that we're being interrupted something like 63 to 64 times a day.
And that includes everything from email pings to buzzes on our phone to self-interrupting. We're actually our as our attention declines, we interrupt ourselves more by checking even when we haven't had a ping, because we're conditioning and rewiring our behavior to do that. As a result of that fragmented attention, we're never reaching those levels of deep complex thought where we can truly solve problems, where we can truly tap into creativity.
Where we can create white space for unstructured wandering and those sorts of things as well. So I think a lot of leaders tend to focus on efficiency. You know, we need to create efficiency so people have more time, but time to do what? Because oftentimes that's not really renewed in a way that adds value. And I think one of the things we need to focus on is stripping back digital distraction so that we have time and space for.
Creativity not under duress. And I make that very clear because oftentimes it's like this is the dedicated one hour creativity time. But anyone who knows who's walked into a room and has been told something like, Okay, we're gonna get together in a huddle and we're gonna brainstorm or try and create this innovative or creative outcome and there's that time pressure, there's that duress, it's almost impossible to perform.
speaker-1 (11:32.014)
It really is. I think that's such an important, you know, we need to be not making sure that we're also sort of just compressing that, I think, as well. And and what you spoke to, I didn't I had a a session with leaders a couple of weeks ago and remember dropping, I think it's a stat that Cal Newport uses around how long it takes us to refine that level of deep concentration. That's nice. And I saw on faces as I was you know mentioned that statistic that people are like doing the calibration of their in their head of like
speaker-0 (11:49.206)
Twenty three and a half minutes. Exactly.
speaker-1 (11:58.104)
There's not even enough minutes in the day for the amount of distractions that I have for me to ever get back to a state of deep work.
speaker-0 (12:04.187)
So effectively we're in this permanent state of never getting below the surface level thinking, right?
speaker-1 (12:09.696)
Absolutely. And I'm sure it's we're seeing that we're experiencing that, we're living that, but we're also seeing it in our organizations and perhaps in reduced levels of creativity and relational you know, optimization of outcomes at that like in interpersonal relations as well.
speaker-0 (12:23.778)
Totally. Well, and like if we do want to jump to the productivity outcomes, like if you think about the kind of work you do when you feel permanently distracted, it's the low bar easy work. You're probably stuck in your email inbox all day because that is the easy, you know, if I clear this, then I create the time and the space for the deep work, for the creative work, for the relationships. So we tend to perpetuate it ourselves by then feeling time poor, feeling anxious about how we manage all the things and then prioritizing the easy low bar things that help us.
feel like we're actually being productive, but actually don't do the deep
speaker-1 (12:56.172)
Well. And I think at that level, and I haven't thought about this before, I hope this is going to make sense. It's like so we've got this kind of like superficial interaction with things. And then we perhaps use AI to write an email or a piece of research that we probably should do ourselves so that we go through that cognitive process, but we don't. So then our entire work day is just either, you know, low level sort of quick emails or AI doing that deeper level thinking. So we're actually avoiding that cognitive process altogether.
speaker-0 (13:21.632)
Almost permanently. And if you think about the memory recall like or the opportunity lost when we're not doing the thinking ourselves, if we're not actually doing the thinking, we're not creating a memory, we're not creating the the the deep thought required for that. So oftentimes, and I have been prey to this in the past, you'll get an email response from someone. You're like, what is that about? I don't even remember sending that. because you used Outlook or whoever to write the email for you, because the metric at that point in time was an empty inbox.
But not actually thoughtful and or helpful responses in any way. And so when we conflate things like visibility and efficiency with value, that's when we find ourselves in this permanent pseudo-productivity trap of doing low bar crap work, frankly, to clear the decks, to do the deep work we never actually get to. Yeah. How often are we stuck in that trap? All of us though, you know, I know this and I still do it.
speaker-1 (14:11.15)
Yeah, my job.
speaker-1 (14:18.816)
Absolutely. And it's I think there's also this kind of again, this sort of, you know, this sense of like I'm aware of it, but I'm still picking up my phone when I d haven't even had a notification or I'm still dropping something into AI, copy pasting it into the email because it's just easier. How do we and particularly perhaps for the leaders who are listening now, listening to this, thinking, what what can I what can I do in my team to be shifting this to to a place where, you know, I'm perhaps
Minimizing digital distractions, allowing people to work in a way that does allow them to be creative and be productive and and and connect with others, have these great experiences at work. What does that look like, Lex?
speaker-0 (14:52.334)
I think we need to start considering technology to be integrated with the culture of organizations. I often think we talk about culture in organizations as being something that people do. But when people are on screens and on technology all of the time, how we use technology becomes the culture of our organization. It is integrated with how we behave, and therefore how we behave becomes the culture. So I think we need to very intentionally and consciously consider.
the role that we want technology, whether it's devices, applications, artificial intelligence, to play in the culture of our organization. And knowing the role expectations of your team intimately helps you to uncover this. Because if you need a team to solve complex, challenging issues, if you need a team to be relationally very cohesive and bonded, which let's face it, whose team shouldn't actually be in that environment, right? Then we need to understand in the ways technology will
prohibit this and the ways where it could actually benefit us. And I think a lot of the time rolling back some of the reliance on technology and some of the unnecessary technology integrations, whether it's, you know, and I know for example, like in our work, Sally, we use things like Trello and email. And we have a few different ways that we create markers of workflows, auditing some of those sorts of things. Like in what ways is technology adding to that? In in other ways, where is it creating friction that could be reduced so that people have time and space?
for more of the relational things, for more of the creativity and stuff like that. So I think we need to see what our relationship with technology looks like at a cultural level and start to really reframe culture from the ground up and use technology to orbit around that rather than be the central part of that culture.
speaker-1 (16:33.006)
Amazing. So I I'm I can imagine there's also some behaviors that leaders leaders can be exhibiting in their team environment as well that'll be really helpful in terms of building that culture. What might that look like in a day-to-day?
speaker-0 (16:44.984)
Think one of the most crucial things that leaders can do, and it comes down to the relational costs of digital distraction. I think first and foremost, one of the greatest things leaders can do is actually model presence in their interpersonal reactions with their team. And I mean both in meetings, in one-to-ones, we we don't want to be fobbing people, that is using your phone to snub the person in front of you, or being again over-indexed in our technology when we should be focused on the team or the person in front of us. So I think that
Leaders who model presence and sort of unmitigated attention in this current environment will be the ones whose people genuinely feel the ability to put devices and technology down because it's being modeled to them. They're also feeling what that attention and what that presence is like to receive as well.
speaker-1 (17:38.158)
And I guess it's giving them an experience of feeling seen and heard and valued because that's exactly what our attention and our presence does, isn't it? I led a session on active listening yesterday and we were talking about this, like what how do we disrupt things when we just glance at our phone or even just you know look down and we think it's innocuous, it can completely derail trust and respect in that situation. And there's a real opportunity for leaders, I think, to be quite sort of vigilant with themselves about how they're interacting with technology in front of people.
speaker-0 (18:06.51)
Agreed. And not to go down sort of the full neuroscience rabbit hole of this, but things like your body language, your eye contact, and the sustained presence in a relationship as well. As you've said, just demonstrates to the person in front of us that we see them, we hear them, we value them, what they have to say is of interest to us. There's nothing worse when you're trying to speak to someone and they swivel their chair back to continue with emails at the same time or they pick their phone up. Like it makes us feel like we've been dismissed. This makes us feel that.
what we have to say is second rate to whatever's on their screen. So I think just as a baseline leadership behavior, attention and presence is sadly the greatest gift almost that we can give right now, I think.
speaker-1 (18:46.422)
It's a huge one as well. But it it's one of those things where I think in like in so many ways, whether it's our wellness, our health, our fitness, we're trying to find the magic pill and optimise and sort of outsource all of these things when really so often it comes down to being present, being human and showing up. And and you know, I think often it's also if we do have something going on in our lives where we do need to be perhaps checking the phone. I don't know, like a you know, wife's about to have a baby, whatever. Totally. But say that. Say this is why I'm just checking my phone because I'm expecting a call from whatever.
giving people that information is really important too, not just assuming that they're gonna know that what you're looking at is actually important.
speaker-0 (19:22.606)
Absolutely. And I think it kind of it feeds into this as well, but also like redefining what responsiveness looks like in your team. Modeling to people that home life, family life, taking care of your family, taking care of your children, having interests outside of work, analog interests, hopefully, is is really important and that there's not an expectation for devices to be integrated in every element of our lives. I was reading staggering data last week that spoke, I think specifically around Gen Z, but they were saying there's
In a lot of Gen Z households right now, there's 45% of people on their phone during dinner conversations. You know, like half of the Western world are using a phone at the dinner table. That feels really disappointing to me because as when I grew up, that was the one time when our entire family could gather together for a shared meal. We could reflect on what had happened that day. There was obviously lots of arguments in my household as well, but it was a shared, yeah. Shared, a shared family moment. So I think when leaders
speaker-1 (20:14.958)
You think I became a lawyer? Right.
speaker-0 (20:20.034)
Are also demonstrating that, hey, after 5 p.m. it's phones down, or hey, in this specific meeting when we're coming together to discuss this specific thing, it's a phone down, it's a laptops away moment. I think we have to redefine those moments of responsiveness and and be okay with not being available all the time and both model that, but also have that expectation for our team as well. And
speaker-1 (20:43.214)
Absolutely. I've worked with a team not too long ago where the leader started to bring like this like wicker basket that they brought from home into team meetings and had everyone pop their phone into the wicker basket and then like leave it by the door. And they also had an upfront conversation with the team about how uncomfortable are we feeling right now that the phones are over there and maybe pinging away. And it was a really, a real shift. I think also really important to acknowledge the discomfort that they were all experiencing because it is weird for us when it feels like an extension of who we are to be without it for an hour or so.
speaker-0 (21:12.588)
Definitely. And Sally, you and I have done a lot of this work together with organizations as well. And I think it's something that's important to talk about. But I don't think a lot of organizations slow down to talk around talk about their operating principles as well and how that impacts culture. And this is something that we've done a lot of work at Human Leaders is helping teams re-establish from scratch, like when are the times we're going to use technology? What are the, you know, how how how do we want to walk, talk, look, and treat each other as a team? And I think technology again.
kind of feels like it's just like an aside to all of that. We've always treated that as something that we, it's a, it's a tool that we utilize, but it is so integrated in everything now that I think we need to set really clear norms and operating principles around communication behaviors, you know, digital tools, why we're using them, when and how, what asynchronous work looks like and having those clear expectations because that also helps people to feel less anxious about responsiveness and and availability as well.
speaker-1 (22:08.64)
immediate flow on effect to burnout prevention right there as well. Yeah. Now I I feel like I could, I mean there's your upcoming book, Real, is going unpack so much of this, but also the sort of the broader story of attention and identity. Now we could definitely talk about this for literally days. is there just to sort of round out, like so is there something that you see as sort of a mirror perhaps what we're seeing in organizations as being a mirror of a broader
sort of shift happening in society around attention and identity and technology at this juncture.
speaker-0 (22:40.416)
Absolutely. I think we are very much becoming who we are on our devices. I think we are so embedded in how we use things like social media and technology now that it's becoming really challenging for us to separate the self from the self that we experience on the device. And so what I write about in my book Real, but also what I think I'm seeing in organizations and at an individual level as well is this enmeshment between our online identity and our real identity.
And I think the more that we tend towards that, the more we're at the mercy of the influence that we're continuously experiencing through those devices and things like social media. So for me, the last few years, and certainly through writing the book, has been a bit of a juncture moment to kind of hit pause and step back and say, who am I becoming if these digital habits continue in this direction? What would that mean for my identity and who I become and my relationships? And
That's something that I think we need to give a little more thought to, not just how is this fragmenting my attention, but who am I as a result of that permanently distracted, fragmented attention and whether or not that's that's the trajectory we wanna spend our lives in.
speaker-1 (23:51.212)
It's an incredibly powerful reflection, Lex. That kind of, you know, if I continue on this, if this is who I am, you know, who I keep being because what we do is who we are, what will that mean for for the person that I am in in six, twelve months, but also years from now? I think it's a really powerful one. and almost working back from there, we can start to perhaps identify some behaviors that we do want to shift in our day-to-day use of of screens and digital technology. Now, it's been an amazing chat.
Can you let everyone know where they can find more about obviously the book, but also about this particular article that you've written?
speaker-0 (24:24.436)
Yeah, absolutely. So this article I wrote alongside Professor Martin Goodman and Scott Allen. It will be at the link in our show notes. It's called the Digital Leaders Paradox and it talks about the four costs of digital distraction. And as leaders, it gives you a bit of a blueprint around what you can do about that. So all of those details are in the show notes, as well as my new book, Real, which is out on the thirtieth of September, twenty twenty six, which is a wild sentence to say.
speaker-1 (24:50.51)
It is wild and so exciting. I am so ready for the world to be able to read this. And I'm sure we're gonna have some very spicy conversations off the back of some of the topics that you explore in the book. And I I have to use for some reason I'm like keep just keep thinking about Jude Bellingham because we had a conversation about him just before we started recording. Case studies, exactly. We may just delve into that one. I mean, I think it's been both about algorithms. It's been interesting, like, yeah.
speaker-0 (25:08.574)
It's we can the topic of algorithms.
speaker-0 (25:15.768)
Football specific.
speaker-1 (25:20.354)
following each other on social media as well. There's a bit of overlap there. And
speaker-0 (25:24.086)
It's an interesting thing to watch, yeah, for sure.
speaker-1 (25:26.166)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Lex. This has been such a fun conversation. And thank you everyone for listening to Live and Work More Human. We'll see you next time. Thanks so much for being with us at Live and Work More Human. You can learn more in our show notes or visit liveandworkmorehuman.com. We'll see you next time.