6 Must-Have Leadership Skills for Uncertain Times with Alexis Zahner and Sally Clarke
Sally Clarke and Alexis Zahner - Co-Hosts of We Are Human Leaders podcast
We’re human first, leader second. We all are. The We Are Human Leaders podcast is about bold, heart-felt conversations that are grounded in our shared humanity.
Learn more about Sally and Alexis below.
Leaders face unpreceded rates if change, volatility and uncertainty right now. Here’s how to meet these challenges and succeed.
In this episode, Alexis Zahner and Sally Clarke discuss the pressing challenges leaders face in today's volatile environment, focusing on technological disruption, the need for adaptive learning, emotional intelligence, and the importance of empathy and purpose-driven leadership in attracting and retaining talent. They emphasize the necessity for leaders to cultivate a culture of continuous learning and adaptability while addressing the evolving expectations of the workforce. In this conversation, Alexis and Sally discuss essential leadership skills for navigating the complexities of modern work environments. They emphasize the importance of transparent communication, strategic visioning, and fostering innovation and collaboration. The discussion highlights how these skills can enhance team outcomes, build trust, and create a psychologically safe workplace. The speakers also address the challenges leaders face amid geopolitical and economic uncertainty, offering practical insights for developing these critical skills.
Learn more about Sally and Alexis here:
Sally Clarke (she/her) - Co-Host of We Are Human Leaders, is a former corporate finance lawyer turned burnout and workplace wellbeing expert, speaker and thought leader. She's author of two Amazon bestselling books, including "Protect Your Spark: How to Avoid Burnout and Live Authentically" and writes regularly on Medium and other platforms on leadership, spirituality, and burnout prevention for individuals and organizations.
Alexis Zahner (she/her) - Co-Host of We Are Human Leaders, is a former leader at Patagonia in Canada and is now a Leadership and Workplace Culture Expert, Mindfulness and Meditation Teacher. She’s Authored articles on the Fast Company, HRM Online, Human Resources Director, Huffington Post, Allied Magazine, and contributed to articles on Forbes. She’s a LinkedIn Top Voice in the field of leadership and careers, and regularly publishes content and articles on leadership, mindfulness, and workplace culture.
Connect with Alexis Zahner and Sally Clarke on socials:
Find Alexis Zahner on LinkedIn.
Find Sally Clarke on LinkedIn.
Episode Transcript:
Chapters
00:00 Navigating Uncertainty in Leadership
01:17 Technological Disruption and AI Integration
08:06 The Importance of Adaptive Learning
10:31 Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
17:22 Attracting and Retaining Talent
18:49 Empathy and Purpose-Driven Leadership
29:18 The Importance of Transparent Communication
37:36 Navigating Uncertainty with Strategic Visioning
47:31 Fostering Innovation and Collaboration in Leadership
Alexis Zahner (00:03.882)
Welcome to We Are Human Leaders. Right now the world feels really uncertain and volatile and this rings true for our workplaces too.
Leaders are feeling it with unprecedented technology disruption, geopolitical tensions and economic uncertainty and the recent dramatic shifts in work expectations following the global pandemic. Being a leader right now means that you have your work cut out for you. But we are here to help. I'm Alexis Zahner and together with my co-host Sally Clarke, today we're going to unpack three of the biggest challenges that leaders are facing right now and we're going to give
practical advice and skills on how you can navigate these challenges.
Sally (00:50.914)
That's right Lex, in today's episode we're going to not just name the biggest challenges facing business, work and leaders right now, but the six skills you need to be able to leverage these challenges into opportunities because call us optimists, but we see a chance here to make work better for us all if we have the courage and the skills to make it happen. Lex, what's the first challenge we're going to unpack?
Alexis Zahner (01:17.12)
The very first challenge that we're going to look at today, so is navigating the rapid technological disruption and AI integration into work.
Business leaders right now are racing to harness the potential of AI and other emerging technologies, but this pace can feel really dizzying. By 2030, the World Economic Forum is actually predicting that 70 % of the skills used in most jobs today will have changed. And 88 % of C-suite executives right now say that speeding up AI adoption is critical to success in the next year.
However, at the same time, what we're seeing is that 75 % of workers crave greater stability, which is forcing leaders to strike a balance in what experts are calling a delicate staggility. That is a balance between innovation and consistency. So this particular challenge we feel is most pertinent and weighs most heavily on leaders right now.
Sally, let's talk about two of the critical skills that we've determined are most important for meeting this rapid technology disruption. Let's unpack it. Can you tell me what is the first skill that leaders need right now to meet this challenge?
Sally (02:43.502)
Absolutely, the first one we identified is adaptive learning. That is creating and cultivating a culture where experimentation is encouraged and fail fast, learn faster is the norm. So that teams can really start to keep pace with the new tools with confidence. And leaders themselves need to model this continuous learning, seeking out new technologies, inviting cross-functional hackathons, these kind of different ways that we can start to lean into the opportunity to learn together.
Sally (03:11.67)
and celebrate small wins in pilot projects along the way. And honestly, I'm surprised that it's only 75 % of workers craving greater workplace stability at the moment. feel like for all of us, there's a real opportunity for work to create this kind of environment in which we do experience stability and predictability to some extent. And this is a real opportunity, I think, for leaders to create that kind of environment.
So we see that adaptability really is no longer a nice to have, it is no longer optional. And so with so much re-skilling going on and this need to re-skill in the next few years, human-centered leaders who promote a stimulative culture of ongoing learning, where learning is actually built into job design rather than like an obligation that you have to fill in your own time and cost, they'll find that their teams are much better equipped to navigate this turbulence. And we just want to underscore that.
This learning is not something that you go away and do on your weekends or you find yourself, but it's really built in and even part of a team sort of collaborative learning opportunity as well. So we also encourage people not to be just doing sort of here's a link to a video, go watch it, but actually building it into live learning sessions with the team will see, I think a lot of potential benefits beyond just the learning experience itself.
So organisations that support continuous learning through upscaling programmes, cross-training, innovation labs, they're 1.5 times more likely to outperform their competitors. So this means fostering curiosity and experimentation. It's not just good for morale or for individual wellbeing or performance. It's really a strategic business imperative.
And adaptive learning is not just about offering a one size fits all approach to upskilling. Again, it's not just sending a link to everyone and saying, watch this and assuming that that's the job done. It's really not about this checkbox exercise approach to L and D. Instead, it's about meeting the needs of the individual through tailored learning, using data to ensure the right amount of stretch and real-time feedback and using interactive and experimental and even experiential learning to translate the cognitive awareness.
Sally (05:19.978)
in and understanding that we have into behaviors and habits and these new skills that we build. Because I think there's often a bit of a disconnect there that we sort of give people the information and assume that there's this implicit process that happens in terms of translating that into behaviors. We really need to ensure that the learning we're offering is getting people across that bridge as well. So how do we go about it?
One place to start is really by encouraging a growth mindset and creating a safe space for trying new approaches, even if they fail, so that people are able to translate these learnings into their own day-to-day practices. And I think really understanding, and I know we've had some conversations on the podcast before about understanding how failure is a vital part of learning and growth. And as leaders, our role is to model the resilience and curiosity required to sort of embrace, take on that failure, learn from it, and move forward.
So the pace of change demands leaders who promote agility and foster ongoing learning in their teams, constantly learning about themselves, other people around them, and the world around you. And so I really encourage leaders here to schedule time for curiosity, whatever that might mean for you, whether that's reading, whether that's listening to podcasts, taking in information, but not just these kind of...
individual ways of learning, but ensuring that we're also having conversations with others around this and sharing opportunities within our team to perhaps talk about what we've been learning recently and learn from one another. So very specifically, what leaders can do is utilise interactive, experiential learning options like the kind we deliver our human leaders to ensure learning goes beyond a cognitive understanding or a checkbox exercise.
Implement personalized development programs to meet people where they are and ensure they get the right stretch at the right time. Don't just assume a one and done. So understand that lasting change requires multiple touch points and constant updates. I think we have, again, have this idea of like, we've ticked that box, we've done that training, but really having this sort of ongoing learning is really essential for our brains to really rewire. And role model a curious, adaptive, and agile approach yourself.
Sally (07:30.488)
take part in these programs. So it's not just giving your teams the opportunity to learn, but joining in. And we've seen ourselves a couple of leaders that we've worked with who actually attended all of the sessions that we offered on mindful communication. And you can see immediately in the team, hey, this leader cares about learning this too. They're involved in this learning process too. And that really stimulates the team to have that curious mindset and develops psychological safety too.
Sally (07:58.136)
So that's adaptive learning. What is another skill that leaders really need to develop to be able to navigate this particular point of challenge?
Alexis Zahner (08:06.858)
Yeah, it's a great question, Sal. And I just want to pause on adaptive learning before we move on, because what I heard you say there is that you almost want to see this embedded as a core value almost in the organization. It's not something that we just do ad hoc. It's actually the way we are around here. It's sort of it becomes part of the culture. We're continually looking to learn and for learning opportunities. And I really loved how you how you put that.
Sally (08:34.574)
Thanks, I think it's something where leaders can benefit from almost framing it as a like, what if we spent 25 to 30 % of our time as individuals as a team focusing on learning on that stretch? Because I think that means there's so many benefits to it, not just from a team connection perspective and an individual learning perspective and the upskilling that goes on, but it really means we're constantly thinking of the adjacent present and the adjacent possible. We're leaning into what's coming ahead of us.
Alexis Zahner (08:45.377)
Mm.
Alexis Zahner (09:02.433)
Yep.
Sally (09:02.7)
rather than just playing catch up. And a lot of that will take some pretty intelligent job design and perhaps some reframing of what our day-to-day looks like, removing points of friction that are just sort of bottlenecking a lot of the workplace activities that we do. But creating space for that, I think, can be an incredibly transformative experience for individuals and for team culture.
Alexis Zahner (09:23.298)
Absolutely, and with the sort of rapid rate of technology disruption that we're seeing right now, the learning almost needs to be continuously iterative and daily because it is, change is hitting us at a pace whereby sort of looking at learning as like we do a course and then we have those new skills. Like by the time we almost finished the course, the skills are already having to iterate on themselves to keep up with the rate of change.
Sally (09:28.558)
Mmm.
Sally (09:51.286)
It's absolutely true. The number of friends I've had recently who are in the middle of their PhDs and they're finding this kind of constant pivot and having to like sort of make peace with the fact that what they actually publish as their PhD thesis may already be redundant by the time that comes out. And that's a really scary thought for us. But I think as you alluded to, if we can sort of lean into this idea that it is a day-to-day process and that there is, you know, sort of liberate ourselves from this idea that we have to be getting it right all the time and then it's right and done.
Alexis Zahner (09:56.224)
Yes.
Alexis Zahner (10:06.571)
It is.
Sally (10:19.618)
but like right and continuing that process.
Alexis Zahner (10:23.074)
Absolutely. And to build on that, second skill that's going to really help leaders navigate this.
rapid technological disruption is emotional intelligence, which isn't a new concept to anyone in the leadership space, but one that is more needed right now, possibly than ever before. We know that disruption breeds uncertainty, which is inevitable. So leaders who tune into their team's anxieties and can maintain that trust and engagement within their team are really going to succeed through this. So high EQ,
and it's about leading the way forward by bringing people on the journey through uncertainty rather than making them feel like change is happening to them. Especially when we look at how we're going to be integrating technology and AI into our organizations. This is really important right now. It's really about reinforcing technology as a key enabler and not
a threat. So to do this leaders need to build and harness the fundamental skills here of emotional intelligence. So just I guess to get granular on what that term means at its core emotional intelligence or EQ is the ability to perceive, to understand and to manage your own emotions whilst also accurately reading and influencing the room. So it's about also attuning to the feelings of others as well and knowing
we might need to do in certain circumstances to manage those effectively.
Alexis Zahner (12:06.24)
So I've had a look at how we can sort of use this in a very practical sense, looking at this challenge of technological disruption. And I think there's three key ways where that's really fundamental right now. So firstly, EQ becomes really paramount in building trust, especially in uncertainty. So as we see the rapid tech rollouts and AI pilots across the globe, in other words, big and scary changes for people, this is going to trigger an
triggering a lot of anxiety. So a leader with high EQ can really sense those fears early and meet them with things like empathy and clear explanations and reassurances. So it's this sort of emotional calibration process that will reduce resistance to change and actually help instill a level of confidence in people on this journey through uncertainty. The second one is around
using your EQ to really look at how change is being communicated. So technical roadmaps and project rollout plans, these are all really critical in change management. And I don't think that that's a deficiency that a lot of leaders have. But what these roadmaps and rollout plans don't have and don't address is how people are feeling about the change. So leaders who have a high EQ know that and see that.
Hard data alone doesn't bring people on the change journey.
which is why we need to present those business cases and have that hard data, but it needs to be paired with human narratives so that your team, your people can connect to the human outcomes. So by way of example, this might look like helping employees understand how AI might actually free them up from certain mundane tasks. And you might want to look at highlighting some of the ways that might benefit them. For example, creating space for upskilling opportunities,
Alexis Zahner (14:11.908)
and celebrating quick wins, like creating more time for your employees to perhaps have longer lunch breaks or focus on their wellbeing a little more. So it's pairing the data again with the human narratives so that people are brought on that change journey with you. And the last part where EQ becomes really critical on this change journey is helping or fostering this culture of safe experimentation within your team. So AI adoption,
now, we think we know where it's headed but a lot of us don't actually understand the capacities fully of AI and where that can be utilized in our organization. So we're realistically in a phase of experimentation here and to experiment well in our team and in our organization and actually understand the capacities in which we can use AI and technology we need to create a culture where experimentation is possible and that needs to be underpinned by psychological
safety. So this means people need to feel safe to experiment with AI and technology, they need to be safe to fail, safe to make mistakes and feel safe, most importantly, to learn and grow from them.
So technology innovation and AI, they're very, very fresh for most of us right now. So this is an invitation or you as a leader need to create an invitation for your teams to start experimenting, playing around with AI, playing around with technology and projects to do things like automate tasks, iterate on them and learn without this fear of blame or failure if things don't go right the first time. So what this does is really empower your people
to actually champion innovation and champion this new technology without sort clinging to old processes and do so in a way where they don't feel like there's going to be repercussions if we don't get this right the first time.
Alexis Zahner (16:08.642)
So I guess in short here, emotional intelligence is really fundamental to the change process, especially around technology advancing and adopting AI within your team. It's also what humanizes what feels like really cold technology right now. And it helps us transform that, transform the capacities of AI and technology into something that can be a human centered transformation. So as a leader, don't be afraid to talk out loud about
these fears and anxieties around technology disruption and AI with your team, but also show that you're addressing them. Communicate the change alongside data with compelling human narratives and really demonstrate the outcomes and what they mean for the people on your team because this is really what's going to foster a culture of safe experimentation and psychological safety that we need to actually move forward in this technology.
disruption so that we can feel safe to fail together learn together and innovate together moving forward. So I think that wraps up our very first challenge Sal. Do you want to let us know what is coming next?
Sally (17:22.208)
Absolutely. Challenge number two. And we are having a lot of conversations around this one right now, and that is attracting, retaining and engaging talent amid evolving workforce expectations. So it's been a lot in the media, even for the last few years around the fact that Gen Z and millennials were soon to make up nearly three quarters of the workforce, really redefining what work means and what our expectations around work are.
So over 90 % of the younger members of the workforce prioritise meaningful work and personal wellbeing. And many have either quiet quit or loud quit or turn down roles that don't align with their values. And that values alignment, I think is a real change, real pivot in the entire sort of relationship between humans and the workplace. So we're also seeing that there's these, the challenges of hybrid and flexible models, the demanding new leadership approaches. I think for a lot of us it's
looking for this the right answer. What's the right number of days to be in the office? Should we be returning to the workplace necessarily? And I think rather than expecting one answer that's going to work for everything, we really need to be open to the possibilities and to individual needs in order to ensure that our teams remain engaged and motivated. So the two human leadership skills that are going to help you address this challenge, I'm to throw to you, Lex, what's the first one?
Alexis Zahner (18:36.759)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (18:49.268)
Yeah, I think the first one here, so it's such an interesting thing, this evolution of how we work, what we find important in work and how younger generations are sort of redefining that. And so I think
A skill that a leader really needs to sort of work across generations right now in the workforce is empathy and also purpose driven leadership. So they're very humanistic skills and they're very centered around understanding people and what people need to work well and do their best work. So what we're finding is that leaders who can actually articulate clear values based missions and then can actually connect that greater sense of
purpose back to how each individual person contributes to that purpose actually can spark a deeper commitment from their employees. And on top of that, actually by showing genuine care, that is empathy for team members and also things that are important to them, things like their career aspirations, their life circumstances, family circumstances. It's that empathy that leaders can show that also really drives that loyalty and trust that will also help tackle some of greater challenges
around employee attrition and turnover. So it's this blend between the two. It's connecting people to the bigger picture, making them feel like the work they do has a greater purpose and is connected to something bigger than themselves, but simultaneously recognizing and making that person feel like they're seen, heard, and valued. Here's the thing though, and here's what we're seeing in this space Sal, aren't we? Is that...
Empathy and purpose aren't just things that we can talk about and they have become very much buzzwords in the space in recent years. But they're actually things that employees experience as a result of our actions. The other thing that we're seeing in the research is that they are absolutely not nice to haves. These are fundamentals to the employee experience. And as you just mentioned in the data Sal, they're fundamental to employee expectations right now.
Alexis Zahner (20:56.484)
So it's this clear, consistent, intentional actions from leaders that aligns to values and aligns to purpose that actually makes employees feel like they're seen, heard and valued. So how do we actually translate these lovely words into something that we can use as a leader? So I'll start with empathy.
Sally (20:56.91)
Mm.
Alexis Zahner (21:20.918)
And the thing to note about empathy is that it's a noun, which means it's a doing word. So as a leader, it actually requires action specifically on our behalf. And that action is taking the time to really understand how our team members are feeling to. Yep.
Sally (21:38.222)
like, can I just interrupt, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Um, empathy, so it's a verb is a doing word. So maybe I'm sorry, I just want to catch you there because they can they can edit that to just get that one right. Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (21:44.157)
Alexis Zahner (21:51.414)
That's so funny, I fucked those two up all together. So I'm just going to rewind to that because I would have sound like a proper nobbit. Let me go back to that bit then.
Sally (21:57.806)
You're all good.
Alexis Zahner (22:02.176)
So the thing about empathy is that it is a verb, which means it's a doing word, which means it actually requires action specifically on our behalf as a leader. And that action is really about us taking the time to understand the feelings of our team members. So to do this well, we need to show that we have genuine care for them and we need to actually give them our undivided presence and be willing to really listen to understand.
So a way that this might look in action, this could be done through, for example, formal checkups. A lot of leaders have scheduled one-to-ones with their employees, be it weekly, monthly, whatever that might look like, but actually using that time to ask open-ended questions, questions like, what's really challenging you this week? Or perhaps what's really energizing you this week? So these types of questions give us insight beyond basic data around project timelines and deliverables.
and into the person and their experience of work itself.
So a systems approach though, build on that to creating a more empathic workplace is actually to embed things like flexibility into your culture. So you sort of mentioned, so this idea that we're looking for more individualized ways to work. So building flexibility into perhaps start times, finish times, lunch breaks will allow employees with specific hobbies or family commitments to actually meet those personal needs as well as their work.
needs. And as a leader this also shows that we care beyond just what that person can do for us in the workplace and we're willing to take those last-dile factors that are really important to people into account. This might also look like tailored development programs and so you kind of mentioned this already around the adaptive learning piece rather than there be this sort of very prescriptive these are the the learning things you need to do as an individual. Letting people
Alexis Zahner (24:06.73)
of self-determined what's important to them in their career trajectory, what skills and knowledge they'd like to build and how we work this into their tailored development program really demonstrates again as a leader that we're empathizing with that employee's journey in our workplace. So that's kind of part one of this. Part two really looks at helping employees connect what they do on a day-to-day basis to the bigger purpose of why it is we're even at work. So just to get very clear
here your organization's purpose is your deeper reason for existing. This is beyond profit. This is
Why you do what you do and do your employees know why you do what you do? Is this clear? Is this spoken about regularly? We find so often in the organizations we work with that no, it's not. So the role that we often play at human leaders is helping leaders bring that to the formal. So if your purpose is your why, then your value statements are really how you get there. They would help translate this why into how.
So they're the core principles and beliefs that shape what you do as an organization in pursuit of that purpose. No, one thing that we find at Human Leaders that really helps...
leaders to connect their teams to their purpose and to their value statements is to start breaking these down and contextualizing these at a team level. So we do something with a lot of teams that help them do this which is what we call translating your values into your operating principles and these are the specific
Alexis Zahner (25:54.4)
behaviors that underpin each value statement and actually translate these beautiful fluffy words that every organization has into tangible and measurable behaviors. You know, so by way of example, your company's purpose might be that you're here, you exist because you're producing some sort of cutting edge, you know, medical technology that is going to revolutionize medical diagnostics and save thousands of lives. A beautiful purpose that a lot of people
people would feel compelled to contribute to. So what does that look like in terms of value statements? Well, a key value statement we see for so many organizations is centered around something like delivering or exceeding customer expectations. Again.
a great value statement to have, but what does that mean for me as an employee on a day to day basis? So the work we do with operating principles is then taking that value statement and translating that into clear action. So that might look like something like we
like to respond to all customer inquiries and complaints within 24 hours. We take personal ownership of customer feedback so we can continuously improve on our service.
So these two operating principles takes that broader value statement and translates that very explicitly into actionable and measurable behavior. So it's easy to understand. so that really helps employees connect back to the bigger picture. And what we know about great workplace culture, it's that it's in these small and consistent behaviors and the way that we think that we actually can connect to that bigger picture, that broader purpose.
Alexis Zahner (27:42.862)
embed these into something where employees feel connected to it and can actually do something about it in a day to day basis. So the final part of that operating principles work that we do with organizations is helping them to then build those operating principles into the day to day how we do things around here. So making them accountable to that. So putting those into team huddles to check ins to ensure that not only are we clear on their behaviors, but are we checking that we're in fact
doing these things on a day-to-day basis. So I guess really in short here, purpose inspires.
values guide, but your operating principles activate. They are the behaviors that employees can do on a day-to-day basis that shows they are moving the company towards that purpose. So when you align all three of these things, can create a culture that's not only high performing, but also purpose-driven and deeply human. So that is that Sal. I'm going to throw it to you now. What is the second skill that you would recommend in addressing this challenge?
Sally (28:49.58)
Yeah, I do just want to hold space for a moment, Lex, on that point because I think it's such an amazing way of, in this sort of uncertain, unstable environment, when we create really clear expectations through really drilling down into what the operating principles are, what we're expecting from each other and how we're going to measure that, that actually goes a really long way towards creating a sense of continuity, of predictability that people are really seeking right now. So I think it has that sort of layered benefit in there as well. Thank you so much for sharing that one.
Alexis Zahner (29:00.716)
Mmm.
Alexis Zahner (29:12.29)
Totally.
Sally (29:18.306)
So the second skill that I'm going to highlight here is that of transparent communication. And we've touched on it before in terms of the technological advances that we're seeing. And it's one that we really, I think, we can sort of shy away from when we as leaders are feeling uncertain or fearful about the situation that we're facing. But it's something that is so key because it really is so important for us to ensure that people are voicing their ideas and their fears without
worrying about the repercussions. creates inclusion, it creates much better team outcomes. We all know the research around psychological safety really driving incredible innovation. Because when employees feel heard and safe, they're more likely to innovate, to stay engaged, and advocate for the organization. And I think this is really key for reaching those younger generations that we spoke to earlier. This is exactly what they're looking for. If you're not doing this, they are going to walk out.
with their feet there. And so in 2025, transparent communication is an essential skill for attracting, retaining and engaging those talent, particularly amid the rapidly evolving workforce expectations that we're seeing. So people today, I think they're simply more discerning and really looking for honesty, clarity, authenticity from their leaders, especially when there's so much turbulence in life outside of work.
Alexis Zahner (30:17.022)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Alexis Zahner (30:35.426)
Mm.
Sally (30:42.83)
And I think when leaders openly share goals and challenges and the decision making processes as these evolve and change, they build trust and foster a culture of inclusion and empowerment. Because they're saying when they share these things, I trust you enough with this information, the kind of the backstory, the context. And that sort of creates that sense of engagement. I'm a part of this story too. Rather than just receiving instructions or being emailed the plan, I'm involved in the why behind it as well.
Alexis Zahner (31:05.474)
Hmm
Sally (31:13.378)
So what does it mean to succeed in this environment and to develop these specific skills to drive transparency? As usual, great communication, like so many other skills that we see in leadership, it starts with really robust self leadership. So developing the skills of emotional awareness, personal agency and leadership, as well as the three selves that we use a lot in our work, which is self knowledge, self awareness, self compassion. This really sets a strong foundation for interpersonal communication skills.
believe strongly that connection with ourselves is a precursor to connection with others. We have to start there. That then lays a nice foundation in for the skill of active listening. This means really developing the multifaceted skill set that you need to truly hear your people's experience, insights, concerns, their feedback, and creates a safe space for open dialogue. It means working actively to meet people's basic human need to feel seen, heard, and valued in the workplace.
And this is not just about what you do with your ears. There are multiple aspects to listening well. But that being said, it really often starts with shutting your mouth and parking your own experience and biases and assumptions about a situation and genuinely listening. And this can be so hard to do when we're in a very time critical atmosphere, but really holding our own thoughts back and our own ideas back at times, allowing people the space to share.
what they're going through without preempting or guessing really is what it means to actively listen. And it's a skill set I really think we can all benefit from improving. There's no end point here. Increasing your understanding of human psychology and culture and behavior can really contribute too. So that's something that leaders can be doing because they're constantly building their learning around human behavior, including things like biases and assumptions. We see that really lands with so many leaders when we do that work, that understanding all of the
All of the stuff that we bring to these conversations ourselves, it's such a, and a half moment for many of us. And honestly, for both of us in the ongoing journey of our own leadership. Always. So another part of this transparent communication is really seeking clarity in messaging. So articulating goals, expectations, and organisational updates clearly helps prevent misunderstandings, ensures alignment.
Alexis Zahner (33:18.402)
Always an ongoing Sal.
Sally (33:38.274)
we encourage you to the extent possible to cut through jargon. And it's often a really helpful shorthand. And a lot of acronyms really do serve a purpose. But we often also see leaders sort of hiding behind jargon as a kind of protection mechanism. It almost creates a distance from the human that you're communicating with. So let's see if we can drop the performative jargon to create that additional clarity and cohesion, particularly if you're leading a diverse group.
Alexis Zahner (33:41.089)
Hmm
Sally (34:05.514)
excessive jargon or industry terminology can actually become a kind of barrier to entry.
Alexis Zahner (34:11.488)
love this one so because I feel like in most sort of recent months or even years, I've become almost allergic to acronyms and jargon and I feel like...
They've also become really popular, I think, in certain organizational cultures as almost being like an in-group terminology. And what I feel is really challenging then is their acronyms and the jargon obviously isn't often isn't transferable outside of that intact team or even outside of that organization. So as you mentioned, when new employees are joining either the team or trying to work across teams, like we know that cross-functional teams are critical right now in organizations as well.
Sally (34:39.298)
Hm. Mm.
Alexis Zahner (34:52.812)
feel like it creates this in-group out-group sort of dynamic which I don't know I don't I don't love it hot take yeah
Sally (35:00.942)
Absolutely low that personally having been on the receiving end of it as a young employee as well, it really does create and sort of us their mentality and it's yeah, it's something we really want to avoid as human leaders. And this sort of connects nicely into my next point, which is really around authenticity. So showing genuine concern and sharing honest perspectives to foster trust and emotional connection with your team members. We know there are very, very few leaders who don't genuinely care.
Alexis Zahner (35:09.782)
Totally.
Alexis Zahner (35:13.803)
Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (35:23.81)
Mm.
Sally (35:28.12)
So strengthening the muscles of demonstrating this actively will serve your team and it also actually improves your own leadership experience in the moment. It's important to also create regular communication routines. What we mean by this is consistent updates through town halls, team meetings, digital platforms to really reinforce transparency and ensure that that's really happening across the organization to keep employees informed and offering space for them to also offer feedback and have that open dialogue.
Alexis Zahner (35:33.991)
Mm. Mm.
Sally (35:57.198)
Information is traveling faster than ever. So getting ahead of the game by being consistent, clear and respectful in when and how you communicate as a leader is key. And openness to feedback. We talk about this a lot in our work as well. It's really about explicitly, so not just assuming that people know that you're open to feedback, but explicitly encouraging two-way dialogue and acting on the suggestions that you receive to demonstrate your receptivity to learning and a commitment to growth.
in that constant sort of learning cycle. And we can think of feedback not as criticism, but as data. And who doesn't want to be a data-driven leader in 2025? So by cultivating these skills, leaders can really create a work environment that attracts top talent and boosts engagement and really retains people as well. Because once they're in this environment, it becomes a really compelling, engaging...
you know, learning experience for them. I think that's another thing that lot of the younger generations are looking for. We want to grow. We want to feel that stretch. Laying the foundation for success at individual and team levels in a work landscape that is demanding honesty and clarity. And let's face it, we've got a workforce that will settle for nothing less.
Alexis Zahner (37:08.616)
Yeah, absolutely. So what I love about this communication piece as well is it is a critical enabler to the empathy that we've already discussed here as well. If we truly want to understand at a really deep level, the trials, tribulations, feelings of our employees, we have to be willing to communicate transparently transparently and make that a two way dialogue. So I feel like the skills that you've discussed here really help underpin that as a critical skill as well.
Sally (37:36.15)
Agreed, like I just feel like so many of the human leadership skills that we work on with leaders, they're all so intertwined and also sort of nourish and feed one another. So without further ado, challenge number three that leaders are facing right now. What might it be?
Alexis Zahner (37:52.706)
Yeah, this is a really tough one, Sal, and it's one that's obviously occurring globally, and that is...
We're currently leading amid geopolitical and economic uncertainty at a rate that can feel really scary and really terrifying for a lot of people. So CEOs are actually ranking the intensifying trade war and the recession jitters among their top concerns for 2025. And 46 % are identifying a downturn as a high impact issue and dozens pointing to global tensions as a major risk.
So we know that these broader macro factors happening in the world right now are really impacting us at a leadership level. So things from volatile energy prices, shifting supply chains, regulatory shifts, are really compounding the complexity that leaders are operating in today.
So we have two core skills that we feel are most relevant in helping leaders operate in this continued uncertainty. And I'll start by addressing the first one. And this is what we call strategic visioning. So strategic visioning is really a deliberate process where leaders and their teams actually begin to imagine, articulate, and plan for these varying future states of the organization and its operating.
environment. So in a way, it's almost preempting the different futures that we might be facing together. So this goes well beyond crafting your generic sort of mission statement and how we do things around here. And it's instead this sort of dynamic blend of foresight, creativity, but also pairing that with rigorous analysis so that we can start to plan for varying futures. What I love about this strategic visioning as a skill is
Alexis Zahner (39:53.452)
It also helps create some of that confidence and that consistency that we've discussed a few times today that employees are really craving right now. When we have a good plan or set of plans or a way to deal with uncertainty, we can create the stability that we actually lack from the external environment. So the sort of five key areas to the strategic visioning. The first one loops back to what we discussed around being purpose driven. that's actually leaders really need to create this
Sally (40:12.162)
Mmm.
Alexis Zahner (40:23.332)
Northstar, articulate this, communicate this as regularly as possible. It's really about getting clarity on the purpose. Why do you exist? What is it that your business is here to do? Your values? And these are just really important to chartering that path forward for your employees in a period of uncertainty. So people need to feel like this purpose is aspirational but actionable.
They need to feel like with the right set of actions in place, we can actually achieve what it is we have set out to achieve. This is sort of stretching them, but it creates inspiration and it creates motivation. setting strategic intent.
You wanna look at this around sort of looking at organizational goals and a roadmap to get there as well. So get clear on some of the things that you wanna achieve and by when, because it just sets this forward motion, this goal in place that we can all work towards together as a collective. So potentially some of those things might look like as an organization, I don't know, we wanna be carbon neutral by 2028. Or perhaps in five years time, you wanna have 50 % of mundane tasks
automated away from employees. So this kind of serve then for our guardrails in our decision making. So that's kind of the first point of the strategic visioning, setting up that compelling North Star and getting clear on some of the goals that are going to form part of the roadmap in getting you there.
The next thing that we look at in terms of the strategic visioning is what we've sort of mentioned around this anticipating multiple futures. So it really behooves leaders right now to look at scenario planning and identifying key drivers that might change the way that they operate as an organization. And from that, developing if then narratives around how these might impact your business. So this might look like things like geopolitical
Alexis Zahner (42:24.932)
tension so if this tariff comes into effect then this is how we're going to handle it. It might look like technology breakthroughs if this particular AI piece of technology comes to fruition then this is how we'll harness adopt it or this is how it will impact our business. Regulatory shifts these sorts of things so scenario planning really helps show employees that you know
In a world where there's a million and one possibilities around what could happen next, we have a bit of an idea of how we're going to navigate that change regardless.
A key piece of this as well is also looking at sort trend mapping, what patterns are emerging, again, such as AI adoption curves, energy price volatility, and actually looking at how these might impact your business before it hits crisis point. So that's the second piece of that, really looking at how we can anticipate some of these multiple futures that might come to bear soon.
The next part of strategic visioning is looking at how you're then going to align the company's resources and capabilities to actually handle that and clearly identifying the gap. assess where the strengths and weaknesses are. You know, this is something that we've been doing.
in organizations since the dawn of time in marketing teams, your SWOT analysis. What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? Where are your opportunities? What are your threats? And getting clear on what you would need to actually bridge those gaps if and when the time comes. That then allows you to add another layer to this sort of dynamic road mapping.
Alexis Zahner (44:05.674)
and sort of breaks that vision down into more discrete initiatives, milestones, and clear resource allocations so that we can begin to plan for those potential multiple futures. The next part of that then is then engaging your various stakeholders within the organization to actually cross those boundaries. looking at how your team works cross-functionally,
Previously organizations have operated as very siloed things and this is this is sort of prohibited resource flow across teams internally and actually looks like bottlenecks when it comes to actually resolving issues. So looking at how we can form some cross-functional coalitions if you will so involving major representatives across the different functions of your organization to actually create a sense of shared ownership of these roadmaps and
start anticipating the interdependencies around what would need to sort of happen to accelerate execution on some of these roadmaps if these different plans come to bear. This also helps you sort of create a sense of adaptive and collective governance around how the organization runs as well. It means you've got the right voices at the table to recalibrate plans on the fly.
So the very last piece then in this strategic visioning and this sort of circles a little bit back Sal to your adaptive learning. It's kind of a build on this from an organizational level and that's really creating continuous learning and adaption. So going beyond just the individual and creating their adaptive learning plans but building continuous learning and adaption into the very fiber of how we operate as an organization. So two key things that need to happen for this to occur is firstly there needs to be a presence of cycle
safety. So for us to learn, us to iterate, for us to adapt, we have to feel safe to bring up challenges, to bring up fears, to own mistakes, to own failures, discuss them so that we can move through them and learn from them without fear. This actually helps you pivot faster. It helps you meet the market changes faster than if you sort of stay stuck in old ways because we kind of, you know, don't want to admit we're wrong or don't want to admit that change is needed. And the second really critical piece
Alexis Zahner (46:30.824)
of this is creating feedback loops. having real-time metrics around what's working well, what's not, what are we executing that is giving us early indications that it might be a failure or that it might be a success and actually course correcting more rapidly here. This is sort of...
Contrast the old way of being where we would you know have a goal We'd set a sort of strategic plan around that and we'd follow it all the way through to fruition and then measure and iterate from that So we need to start building in quicker more iterative Feedback loops into how we operate as a business as we're walking towards our goals so that we can adapt to them along the way So that is the very first piece of how we can start to meet some of these or meet this particular
challenge and that is strategic visioning. And I'm going to pass to you, Sal, what's the second most critical skill that we need to meet this challenge head on as a leader?
Sally (47:31.478)
Yeah, thanks Lex. And I think this might be a little bit of an unusual one, but I'm hoping that it's going to make sense while we sort of hold space for it for a bit. And that is to promote innovation and collaboration. Because as we were reflecting on, you know, when individuals are experiencing these times of deep global uncertainty, volatility, and in the context of digital digitization, in the aftermath of a global pandemic, you know, we feel overwhelmed, right? Is anyone not feeling overwhelmed?
Alexis Zahner (47:39.584)
Mm-hmm.
Sally (48:00.578)
So what can we offer in the workplace? What can we do and how can we harness human ingenuity in a way that also meets their needs to perhaps feel creative and connected? And this is where leaders can use a focus on innovation and collaboration as tools with multiple benefits for individuals, but also for the team and the organization.
So firstly, this looks like, you know, not just sticking with archaic modalities of work, whatever industry or field we're in, innovation is essential. And this doesn't mean we're ignoring risk, but it's about continuing the journey of evolution as a risk aversion tactic. So I think often when things are very volatile, a lot of particularly sort of, you know, older school thinking is about, let's just shut everything down, batten down the hatches and wait for the storm to pass.
you know, the storm may not pass for a while. So we really need to be innovating new ways of working, perhaps updating products to become more future-proof and fostering strategic alignments with new partners that can make us less vulnerable. So thinking about these possibilities and having these kinds of conversations with our teams to see where these possibilities might lie. Secondly, innovation in the workplace can really form a healthy focus away from the
chronic stress that is rampant around geopolitical issues at the moment. So by giving people the time, the resources and the space to create and build on new ideas at work, you're not only building trust and respect and autonomy and engagement, you're also fostering work as a kind of safe space where people can come to work on something positive, creative.
and feel empowered by it and have perhaps a sense of control and agency in their lives in contrast to much of what we witness happening in the outside world. And thirdly, collaboration is key. So against a backdrop of addictive social media, an endless and often utterly demoralizing news cycle, and also these sort of increasingly individualized societies where loneliness reigns, you know, perhaps the greatest need
Sally (50:05.996)
work can meet for people today is to experience human connection, belonging and meaning. So when your people are looking at the world and asking why bother, leaders I think need to come up with an answer, even if it's at the micro level. By giving people a sense of purpose and imbuing them with the understanding that they matter, that what they do matters, that it has impact, that who they are and what they contribute is important, you create a potentially resonant ripple effect.
So what does this look like? This means being explicit about how people's work matters, what impact it has, really ensuring that it connects through to that sort of end client or perhaps another part of the organisation, whatever it is, really mapping that out and getting clear on that and reflecting that back to the individual. We're not talking about sort of forcing collaboration here, I think, as well. And I think it's more than just getting a bunch of people together in a room, throwing a whiteboard and a bunch of post-it notes in and just assuming that collaboration will magically happen.
But for example, creating carefully delineated space between time for sort of deep solo work, uninterrupted, maybe meeting free mornings, but then also designated and thoughtfully designed time for the collaborative work. can be a really helpful place to start. And if you're still not sure where to start, ask your team for input on how they prefer to collaborate, perhaps engage human leaders to come in and have a conversation with your team around what that looks like and really surfacing some ideas so that we can generate ideas.
test them out, iterate from there. And you might find through this process of experimentation, collaboration, you strike upon something really unique and brilliant in terms of work modality and work design for you and your team. We've seen it a couple of times actually where teams have come to something that's sort of new and it's actually been iterated across the organisation because others have picked up on the unique way that they have of collaborating, seeing how energising it is.
Alexis Zahner (51:43.478)
Hmm
Alexis Zahner (51:56.706)
you
Sally (52:03.574)
And again, this just, think, really underscores that there is a lot of potential for work to be a place and experience that creates nourishment, that creates connection, that actually really helps us to thrive as human beings against a context of geopolitical tension and intense uncertainty on a global level. So that's been Roller Coaster.
Alexis Zahner (52:24.256)
Hmm.
Alexis Zahner (52:28.316)
Yeah and actually before we move on though, so one thing I loved that you said there that I just want to double click on is that I feel like days gone past we've seen work as something that is you know we inherently need to do it to make an income to survive but I love this reframe as work being an outlet. Somewhere we can go that harnesses our creativity, harnesses our brilliance, makes us feel like we are contributing to something bigger than ourselves regardless
Sally (52:31.352)
Mm.
Sally (52:44.12)
Mm-hmm.
Alexis Zahner (52:58.18)
This doesn't have to apply just to a knowledge worker setting, but at every level in every organization, there is an opportunity to make people feel like what they do on a day-to-day basis connects to something that really matters and that they matter. And so I just, love that. I love this idea that work being life-giving rather than detracting from.
Sally (53:20.782)
Absolutely. And I think that ties in neatly to the point that we made earlier around the expectations of the modern workforce with people just not wanting it to be a TGIF situation. We want to actually grow in our work. We want to connect. We want to really express who we are as a unique individual through our work. And there really is a lot of opportunity, I think, for leaders to leverage that for, you know, benefits to individual team and organization. So
Alexis Zahner (53:28.747)
Yeah.
Alexis Zahner (53:34.508)
totally.
Sally (53:49.098)
Yeah, those six skills adaptive learning, emotional intelligence, empathy and purpose driven leadership, transparent communication, strategic visioning, and promoting innovation and collaboration. These are the skills we see as being really critical to leaders in navigating not just these three challenges, I think, but a lot of the other challenges that we're facing. And those can be different from one location to the next, perhaps one organization to the next. But it's really about proactive.
leadership in navigating these trends. It's not leaning back and waiting for things to happen. It's really, I think, a call to action to start to look at ways of getting ahead of the game, of learning, of iterating, and also to reflect on your own leadership approach so that you're growing and you're really working on whichever of these skills you think you feel needs most attention. And if you need help developing these skills, that is what we do.
and human leaders, so please feel welcome to reach out. Lex, as always with our catch-ups, I've just had the most amazing time chatting with you about these, I mean, we have hours and hours of conversations like this every day, so it's exciting to be able to distill it.
Alexis Zahner (54:58.624)
Hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think what felt really important to us at this point in time was really helping leaders drill down into these key challenges that we're all facing right now. We hear so often from leaders that
There's sometimes this sense of even almost like hopelessness, not knowing what to do or how to lead a team when everyone's feeling this continuous and constant uncertainty and volatility. So it felt really important to us that we could drill down into what these key challenges are and give leaders some practical insightful tools that they can actually implement and integrate into their leadership style to do something about it. So as you've mentioned, so and human
leaders this is something that we are so passionate about and that we love helping leaders and their teams work through so if you would like to learn more about these or if you would like to develop these leadership skills for yourself and for your team we encourage you to reach out to us and you can find more information about us at www.wearehumanleaders.com so fun times thanks for being here with me today it's been a great conversation
Sally (56:17.166)
As always, thanks so much. See you next time.